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J@nosch
Conquering Gladiator


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PostSubject: Warriors Isle-Builds   Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:44 am

Hey guys, i really think we shouldn´t run 3x Melee on every Map in the mAT and exspecially on Warriors Isle we could easyly get buildwarsed or powned in generall by some builds.

So i made some serious builds which could work fine on Warriors.



A kind of Dual Paragon, modded to face any build:

+ lots of support skills vs any build (Pure was Min Ling, Empathic, Brace yourself, TPIY,
+ probably hard pressure+ ability to spike
+ lots of rupts vs spikes/hexbuilds
+ nice lorddamage-dealers (if you send 2x Warrs+ 2x Paras+1 Healer, you sould even have more lorddamage than 3x Melee and still 2 healers+hardres+rupts in your base)
+ 2 hardresses+3 signets
(+ a build where everybody would be fine with his position -> no eles!)

- lack of enchremove in generall, no "hardrenchremove" like rend/PoD/Strip
- no passive defence a lá blind/blurred/additional weapons
- only psysical damage dealers (-> no unexspected caster damage)
- not the best splitt-qualities




Dual Smite:

+ decent spike (exspecially on warriors)
+ pressure by smited warrs + nec
+ lots of support a lá mass of party heal, additionall hex/con-remove
+ kinda undestroyable (you can hold long in their lordroom/at the stand)
+ decent (def-) splitt ability since you have some nice support by the smiters, you can send additionall healers back (+warr+nec)
+ 2 hardresses+ 3 signets

(* dunno if ErzEmo likes Smiters)

- no real rupts at all besides 2x d chop
- more or less softtargets (even with the awesome Monk-Insignas...)
- not really much lorddamage in lorddamage race
- no real offensive splitt
(-obviously our warrs won´t get the build and never spike their warrs, since i would play smiter here i guess)



Modded Dual-Ele-Spike:

+really hard spikesRigor+Rend for kinda "unpreventable" spikes
+ 3x AOE-Spike-Elites vs Footies/Knights-> down in some secounds!
+ shit load of defence by 26/30-secound Anti-Melee-Ward+Blind
+ enough enchremove (Rend+Shatter)
+ thousands of Enches, so their enchremove will be focused on Conjures or Attunements and can´t be used offensively
+ some rupts if u remember the tons of Anti-Melee-Stuff, Cry on Apply-> no pressure at all by 3x Melee!
+ Conjure-Warrs+ Dual Invoke should deal some lorddamage
+ long holding in their lordroom because of wards -> long time to deal lorddamage

- not the best splittablilities, but at least the def-splitt should work out with so much defence
- 2x Eles with the same Element (remember, the "new" [rawr]-Spike ha 2x lightning with Rit+Invoke damage aswell and it works out)
- dunno about the lorddamage-qualities vs 3x Melee
- Mesmer without Diversion and only Shame
(- Eles-> Erzi will QQ the whole match)
(- it´s a spike-only-build and we suck at pressing one Key on 1)


What do you think and are there realistic builds you would like to add for Warriors Isle?
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dani
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PostSubject: Re: Warriors Isle-Builds   Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:47 am

Well, build #1 and #3 look ok, we can test them. (but well, mat is in 3 days, kinda late..)

In the first build, i would kick a war for the nec, simply because pod+strip pwns.
Lyssas Balance on the para.. idk, that kinda sux. If you want enchremoval on a para, kick the elite for Shatter Storm. (but i'd rathe rkeep empathic + tpiy, therefore a nec with pod/strip would be usefull.)
->

Should work well vs every build
If you want more pressure, we cuold also take the paragons erzi posted in the "dual paragon"-build (- pressure builds) + Its alot harder to spike those P/Ws.
But with the 2 paras here you can do well vs everything, you have more shutdown, more support, hex/cond remove.
Maybe take a normal axe-war instead when running p/mo + p/me, and a cslash with psike when running 2x p/w ?


The second build.. i dont rly like that tbh. Those smiter-bars dont give as much def as u say, ur definitely NOT "kinda undestryoable" :p.
On the other hand, the spike dmg isnt that great either imo.


Ur 3rd build: Well, normal dual ele modded. But idk if ur mods are that great.. I mean, the second ele cant spike with gale, invoke, rigor and rend.. lol.
Also, you dont have many hexes and 3 caster-spikers - is rigor rly needed? i mean.. it will make a spike obvious, idk..
On the other side, with dual ward and an apply-camping mes you should be able to pull footies and aoe-spike them quickly. (theorywarssssssss)
Still i think that a/p > this. <3
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Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Warriors Isle-Builds   Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:43 am

Ok, since you guys obviously have maybe only played around 10 matches on Warriors in your whole life as it seems, I will take the time to educate you on this very simple map. We have played triple melee with extra interrupts and enchant removal on this map all month. There are 3 categories of builds you will see on this map in the mAT.

1) 3 melee or some dumb modded 3 melee build ie with a channeling rit or fire ele.
2) 4 necro hex overload.
3) Some sort of spike build (Includes AP, Invoke, etc.)

Warriors is a terrible splitting map so as long as we aren't absolutely retarded (ie letting them capture catapult etc.) we shouldn't have to worry about splits at all. Category 1 is something we are used to facing, and we only need to worry about this if we know the other guild is better than us at 3 melee (atm only 2 guilds, wtf and mojo) Or if we have lost to the guild running a fire ele, ie OG and Est, but that was more due to retardation than anything else. Category 2 is really gay, but who have we seen practice this build aside from hmmm? if we have healburst and double run on warriors the whole game we should easily win on lord dmg as long as bloom doesn't get solod by a mesmer or something retarded. Category 3 is probably the one we are most concerned with, but there are many things we could do, bring vital on our necro, fertile season, a runner with shelter and union, everyone actually camping their lightning shields and not dying like bads, etc. As it stands we would have 1 pspike for invoke and magebane + dshot for other assorted skills, so we have the rupts to counter the spike, and we should easily win at lord dmg vs AP or invoke.

The only other thing you said was that you were scared of getting buildwars'd, the only thing I can see as a buildwars that would work is the DirT build with 2x Brace yourself, etc. In which case we just have to be able to not wipe at main and be very good at capping flags, capping catapult, and splitting into their base at the same time, and eventually win at lord dmg, unless you want to run something retarded and completely different than what we have done for 2 months just in the offchance that the other team has 2 shitty paragons with 1 gay skill each.

I'm not overally concerned with this map at all, even vs the best guilds we should win, as you saw we got kills vs LaG but lost because Bloom somehow let a knight die vs a ranger and a warrior with Erzian back (How the fuck did that happen), and that was kinda because we had no snare on our necro and they capped the catapult.

I'm more concerned about losing to that stupid push build on Frozen, if you make a seperate thread I will educate you on how to beat that build as well.
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J@nosch
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PostSubject: Re: Warriors Isle-Builds   Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:26 am

Happy wrote:
Ok, since you guys obviously have maybe only played around 10 matches on Warriors in your whole life as it seems, I will take the time to educate you on this very simple map. We have played triple melee with extra interrupts and enchant removal on this map all month. There are 3 categories of builds you will see on this map in the mAT.

1) 3 melee or some dumb modded 3 melee build ie with a channeling rit or fire ele.
2) 4 necro hex overload.
3) Some sort of spike build (Includes AP, Invoke, etc.)

Warriors is a terrible splitting map so as long as we aren't absolutely retarded (ie letting them capture catapult etc.) we shouldn't have to worry about splits at all. Category 1 is something we are used to facing, and we only need to worry about this if we know the other guild is better than us at 3 melee (atm only 2 guilds, wtf and mojo) Or if we have lost to the guild running a fire ele, ie OG and Est, but that was more due to retardation than anything else. Category 2 is really gay, but who have we seen practice this build aside from hmmm? if we have healburst and double run on warriors the whole game we should easily win on lord dmg as long as bloom doesn't get solod by a mesmer or something retarded. Category 3 is probably the one we are most concerned with, but there are many things we could do, bring vital on our necro, fertile season, a runner with shelter and union, everyone actually camping their lightning shields and not dying like bads, etc. As it stands we would have 1 pspike for invoke and magebane + dshot for other assorted skills, so we have the rupts to counter the spike, and we should easily win at lord dmg vs AP or invoke.

The only other thing you said was that you were scared of getting buildwars'd, the only thing I can see as a buildwars that would work is the DirT build with 2x Brace yourself, etc. In which case we just have to be able to not wipe at main and be very good at capping flags, capping catapult, and splitting into their base at the same time, and eventually win at lord dmg, unless you want to run something retarded and completely different than what we have done for 2 months just in the offchance that the other team has 2 shitty paragons with 1 gay skill each.

I'm not overally concerned with this map at all, even vs the best guilds we should win, as you saw we got kills vs LaG but lost because Bloom somehow let a knight die vs a ranger and a warrior with Erzian back (How the fuck did that happen), and that was kinda because we had no snare on our necro and they capped the catapult.

I'm more concerned about losing to that stupid push build on Frozen, if you make a seperate thread I will educate you on how to beat that build as well.


I´m not scared to loose with 3x Melee vs anyone at all, just to say it before.
We can deal with anybody as long as we´re not doing retarded mistakes.
But i really think we should practise some other builds than 3x melee which actually have a chance to challenge 3x Melee or are "also good".
Just to be sure that we´re able to play something else than 3x Melee (because always 3x Melee is not always fun).
And IF 3x Melee gets nerfedsome day, we maybe have some "backup" builds.

On Warriors i´m most scared of A/P-Spike and QuadNecro. That [hmmm] doesn´t play QuadNec as good as it could be played is quite obvious, but other guilds can.
Even idiots can beat anyone with A/P-Spike in 8 vs 8 and as u said, Warriors is a quite bad map for active splittactions.
Only "permanent-Splitts" could do stuff here.

And i like paragons- this thread is not really a "OMG we´ll loose on Warriors Isle for sure"-Thread it´s more: Is there any build we could run, which also works good for us and is still strong?
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Mishi
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PostSubject: Re: Warriors Isle-Builds   Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:32 am

are you finally gonna move back to the proper Boo guild after that maT?

breaking news: i received a promise from Telekom to install a new line to the house within the next 8 weeks (which doesnt mean Internet access within 8 weeks but well)
i wish i could move to south korea where over 75% of the population have access to VDSL50. i read that germany is, when it comes to internet supply, on one stage with developing countries.
i know you don't care about my internet issues but i'm so sad :-(
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